CBS News - Couric & Co. -
May 11, 2007
Interview with Joel Kotkin
10 Questions: City Life
Posted by Katie Couric
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a time when American cities are changing so rapidly--both as centers of our
society, as a launch pads for escape to suburbs and exurbs--I thought I'd
consult with the man who may be the country's leading expert on urban life,
Joel Kotkin, author and Irvine Senior Fellow at the New America Foundation.
Hes the subject of this weeks 10 Questions. We talked about the problem
with trendiness in cities, what it takes to make a well-managed city, and
why sustaining the middle class is so important.
1. Mr. Kotkin, your book, "The City: A Global History," distills the
essence of why cities were created-and what they are meant to accomplish-in
about 200 pages. So here's the most basic question: how do you define a
city-and what is it there for?
A city is a place that is more than a village or town. It provides all
the essential needs, and also tends to have a strong sense of identity and
purpose. In our expanding urbanized world, more and more places -- even
small towns and some suburbs -- are becoming more like cities, particularly
with the internet.
2. You've long criticized the middle class leaving cities for suburbs
and exurbs-and leaving only the super-rich and poor in their place. What
does it take for the middle class to stay in a city-and why is it so vital
that they be there?
The middle class is the ballast that holds cities together. It allows for
the broadest spectrum of employment and services. Keeping it in some cities
will be difficult due to high housing prices and bifurcated job markets; in
other cities, it's still safety and lack of opportunity. Almost everywhere
it's schools. Economy, schools, safety are the keys to retaining a strong
middle class.
3. What cities are putting forward the right policies to help make the
middle class stay? Are there "best practices" that other cities could learn
from?
If you look at migration statistics using AA degree and above educated
people as a surrogate for middle class you can see the middle class is
still headed to places like Dallas, Houston, Charlotte and Phoenix.
Relatively low housing costs, expanding economies, good business climate
seem to be key factors. Of the big cities, Houston, where I have done a lot
of work, seems to be most conscious about these things even as it absorbs
many poorer people and immigrants.
4. You've also attacked the trend toward building "trendy cities" with
a focus on converted loft spaces and fancy coffee houses. What's wrong with
them?
There's nothing wrong with them except that cities see them as an end to
themselves. In New York, SF, LA, Chicago or Boston, there is clearly a
strong group that likes this lifestyle and will pay for high-end amenities
(well beyond coffee shops, as you know). But in other cities, where these
populations are smaller, such efforts are probably a bit limited in effect.
I think great cities can have these things, but they must be more and
accommodate a broader population, including people who may have lived in the
center but have grown up and can not possibly afford a decent lifestyle in
the more attractive cores. For example, the future of NY is as much, if not
more, about Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island than Manhattan; LA needs the
San Fernando Valley instead of just the far westside. You can have both, but
without middle class areas a city can not really remain a place of
aspiration. It becomes what one scholar calls "productive resorts".
5. You live in Los Angeles-which, in 2005, elected its first Latino
mayor in over 130 years. How is Antonio Villaraigosa doing in a city that
has long seen tension between its rising Latino population, its significant
African-American minority, and "white flight" toward the San Fernando Valley
and away from the city center?
This tension has existed for a while. Politically African Americans have
done very well historically post-1970 in LA, with influence that may
well have exceeded their numbers. Latinos have been the opposite but their
numbers and level of political sophistication has exploded since the late
1990s. Latinos and African Americans will compete for jobs in government and
power; hopefully this transition, which inevitably favors the more numerous
and economically active Latinos, will be handled judiciously.
The Valley is not losing whites as fast as before, I believe but can not
be sure. Many areas are becoming attractive to middle class of all
ethnicities, including in particular Persians, Armenians and Asians, but
also many entertainment industry people. Strong private schools and some
decent charters as well as magnets show promise. It's not like the 70s and
80s; the Valley is proving pretty resilient, much like Queens and Brooklyn
in NYC.
6. In New York, where I live, Mayor Michael Bloomberg took over the
city's schools-which have chronically underperformed. Mayoral control of
schools seems to be a trend, starting with Chicago under Mayor Richard
Daley. Has this new way of running the education system lived up to its
promise?
My understanding is that most of these takeovers have not done much. The
judgment on Bloomberg and Daley is not too favorable, despite the media
spin. Personally the problems are deeper seated than Mayors can deal with,
or are willing to pay the political price for. First, there are the very
powerful teachers unions. But more important is how do you educate large
populations of poor, often non-fluent English speakers. We did it back at
the turn of the century and still have some success in the suburbs, but it
is hard when family discipline may be breaking down and, as teachers tell
me, parents are not involved.
7. You seem pretty hostile to public employee unions in general. How
have they contributed, in your view, to the problems facing urban America?
And how do you think they would respond to your critique?
My problem is not with the unions per se. They have a right to fight for
their members. But the problem is the countervailing forces small
businesses, neighborhoods, taxpaying middle class are much weaker than
they were. The unions have no real strong opposition; the big real estate
interests and elite populations really are not so concerned with city
services outside police and fire.
8. Traffic is a crippling problem not just for people living in
cities but especially people commuting to them. The average American now
spends more time commuting than on vacation. Have some cities found a way to
better connect the suburban to the urban?
I would posit something more radical. We need to break the whole
commuting culture as much as possible. In my current work in NYC, for
example, we are suggesting that more employment shift to the outer boroughs,
through entrepreneurial development, satellite offices or work at home.
Queens and Staten Island have among the longest commutes in the country. In
most other cities outside NY this decentralization is taking place but not
to the extent that would make sense. It will come: the next generation will
not put up with an hour's commute to go from one computer to another.
9. Is homelessness solvable?
This is very difficult as long as family and church networks are
weakening in cities. The support systems need to be strengthened but
government alone can not solve this.
10. What is your favorite city and why?
Trick question! I have my prejudices, if you will. My family is from NY
(since 1900) and I think as an urban experience it is in a class by itself.
But I live in LA because it has many of the positives of NY diversity,
great restaurants, culture, economic dynamism but is less hierarchical. I
also think it is a much better place to live than visit. Beyond NY and LA, I
think if I was a young person looking for opportunity, I would look at
places like Phoenix, Charlotte, Houston, Dallas and Atlanta, even Las Vegas
this is where younger educated people and particularly 35+ families are
headed.
